Goat Matrix/Chat temp
Neol: [2026-02-09 9:46:13pm] someone should test that - comment in your own post 20 times and see whether that would get you a 1st rank :)
JasonCarswell: Could have been the number of comments, or last action. Yes. More comments helps. He said something about 3 being special but I forget. But it also paralizes the front page - and the non-bonused posts never have a chance. I just won't resort to extra aliases. Too much meddling.
JasonCarswell: TIL: Epstein started the 2007 economic avalanche.
LarrySwinger: Hello Jason are you up yet? I believe it's pretty early there still right?
JasonCarswell: After dog walk...
LarrySwinger: eyyyyyy
LarrySwinger: Some dog walk.
LarrySwinger: Since it takes up such a chunk of your day you should hire a dog walker. Such as this guy: https://youtu.be/NCo-OgSC7Ps
redditbutt: when you said dog walker, that dork was the first person I thought of
JasonCarswell: Oh ya. Got distracted.
JasonCarswell: That Fox News guy was a dork. So was the Redditor.
JasonCarswell: Winton asked me to walk with him. We were discussing Zionism.
redditbutt: Yes, but that tranny reddit mod gave them a slam dunk
redditbutt: Jesse Waters knows it from the start, which is why he has a shit eating grin the whole time.
JasonCarswell: Breaking: Fox News anchor interviews a 5 year old autist about anarchism, instead of Dave Smith.
redditbutt: Fox news is so weak, it's like they can't challenge someone on an even battle of intelligence. They gotta go pick on a retard to make themselves feel superior.
JasonCarswell: (((Supremacist orders from above to reinforce the enslavement mind.)))
redditbutt: Fox: Here's why the "left" is bad. (Go find the dumbest person on the Internet and make an example out of them)
LarrySwinger: Lettuce test it now Jason
LarrySwinger: Fucks news was good when they had Tucker.
JasonCarswell: At our Freedom birthday party Sunday that time Vincent and I were on Tucker came up. This week it was 4 years ago that the bridge "blockade" was occuring and Ottawa was full of trucks. The 14th is when Turdo declared the Emergencies Act thing.
JasonCarswell: So where do I catch this Simplex from?
JasonCarswell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplex
JasonCarswell: https://simplex.chat/
LarrySwinger: Check out the private chat
LarrySwinger: I sent you an invite link on there.
JasonCarswell: Downloading it. What's so good about it?
LarrySwinger: There are no IDs so you can't even be tracked by those.
LarrySwinger: Check out their homepage they explain it well.
JasonCarswell: It's not doing anything. I guess I got the herp now.
LarrySwinger: What isn't doing anything?
JasonCarswell: Nice branding. The .msi file doesn't bring up an install window or anything.
xoenix: Why am I so throttled? Only one post today and that was delayed from post whenever
xoenix: Someone can post this: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15545403/Epstein-jail-guards-used-fake-body-trick-media-waiting-outside-prison.html
JasonCarswell: "Throttling" is admin slang for cupping balls while choking on cock.
JasonCarswell: The bigger questions are: who's cupping, who's choking, and whose cock?
JasonCarswell: The Simplex doesn't have a guide? It does something when clicked, but no install window, no instalation found, and I don't think it's a browser thing.
LarrySwinger: That's weird.
JasonCarswell: Perhaps its for only Win11+ ?
LarrySwinger: I have no idea.
LarrySwinger: You could try the terminal app if you're interested in that.
JasonCarswell: All Greek to me. I don't do binaries. Now I've half-installed something that I don't know if it's there or not, can't unistall something that isn't installed - I've got the herp alright. Thanks Larry.
LarrySwinger: It seems pretty phone-centric. I can only join groups by scanning a QR code from the phone app.
LarrySwinger: You could try it from your phone however. At least it's something.
JasonCarswell: Give my phone herpes too? I'm good. And have no space at all. I may try Simplex on my PC again - after they improve or give me antibiotics.
x0x7: Test: https://img.gvid.tv/i/3v8CbA7N.jpg
x0x7: I found one of the bugs in chat
Gr3vi: Oh yeah?
Gr3vi: Oh shit I can write
Gr3vi: And was there not a better way to implement anti-spamming measures? Making a post is kinda lame when all you do is lurk
Gr3vi: Add them impossible captchas from 4chan lol
x0x7: Yes. Captcha everything.
x0x7: We could do the saidit thing
Gr3vi: Cloudflare thing?
x0x7: I mean no, we shouldn't.
x0x7: But yeah, that.
Gr3vi: Edward has a whole script for clicking that thing
Gr3vi: Getting karma and points is kinda too Reddity
x0x7: Not hard. They are security theater.
Gr3vi: Just make people answer the question - What is the meaning of life
Gr3vi: And make the answer - Gay Seggs
Gr3vi: So bots can't get through
x0x7: The issue is that chat attracts a lot of trolls with no investment in the site. And when chat is good it actually kills discussion on the rest of the site.
Gr3vi: idk I don't think saidit had much of a problem w chat, it was great and site was doing things
x0x7: People give me shit for chat not being perfect. But it's better and more active than saidit's. And it's better than voat's what takes 10 seconds to post.
Gr3vi: It's better than nothing and the thing is this is not IRC
x0x7: Saidit's chat was dead, which was actually good for post discussion.
Gr3vi: Thelounge is something else, this is homemade
Gr3vi: Saidit chat was not that dead, it was rather active but it died as everything else died along side it
x0x7: It seemed pretty dead to me toward the end, even while the post discussions were doing ok. The post discussion ratio to chat there was a lot higher.
Gr3vi: Toward the end sure
Gr3vi: But u can't compare chats now, saddit is ded af xd
x0x7: The problem is when I make improvements to chat I can see the comment numbers drop on posts. Then the main site just becomes a discussionless link dump.
Gr3vi: I don't think it's a chat problem
x0x7: Trust me, it is.
Gr3vi: There's chronic posters who complain about not being able to post much, hence why they're coming here
Gr3vi: I don't post at all anymore, don't have much time to do so
x0x7: That's a good point.
Gr3vi: Chat is just a much easier way to discuss things
Gr3vi: But you can't write whole essays here, post images and videos
Gr3vi: There should be an incentive to make posts and then an incentive to chat
Gr3vi: Make chat a leisure to use to "chat" and posts to make an actual discussion that's outside of the leisurely chatting
Gr3vi: Chat is popular because you can go in and write things very quickly
x0x7: Imagine if you would that chat didn't exist at all. People would still chat. They would just do it in comment trees.
x0x7: And that's more asynchronous.
Gr3vi: It'd be very uncomfortable and people would demand chat sooner or l8er
x0x7: You can pick up the discussion whenever.
Gr3vi: What's the max len for a chat message?
Gr3vi: If people can't write walls of text here, maybe they ought to discuss more on the forum
x0x7: I should put that in.
Gr3vi: Isn't it default 256 chars?
x0x7: See I like the suggestion.
x0x7: The problem is I implemented it as one of the controls.
x0x7: And then people complained.
Gr3vi: People will always complain
Gr3vi: I am the elder of my apartment bloc, I work w people
x0x7: Just like JC wanted the force to post whenever if you have a lot of posts on the front page.
x0x7: But then he's one of the top people who hates it.
Gr3vi: That guy has post diarrhoea
Gr3vi: He floods the forum and often his posts are rather empty from what I see
x0x7: Everyone wants walls of text to go to posts. But they don't want the message: "That looks like a wall of text. Sounds like a good topic for a thread." message.
Gr3vi: Well sometimes you have to do things people don't like
Gr3vi: That's just how it is
Gr3vi: Gotta learn how to incentivise people to do it
x0x7: I mean, I could toggle the chat quality controls back on right now.
x0x7: But there was a pretty big bug that made it too mean.
Gr3vi: Just implement blackjack and hookers as a reward for a good post
x0x7: The rate limit was re-adding the rate limit at a 7 hour penalty. So something that was a 5 minute penalty, when they try again it was turning into 7 hours. That code wasn't supposed to be there.
Gr3vi: Interesting lol
Gr3vi: Probably some function calling out something else
Gr3vi: If the parameters are set correctly
Gr3vi: Basically how I see it, maybe people need a carrot to post on the forum more
x0x7: It was a copy paste from a block of code. But I needed to delete two lines for that one case.
Gr3vi: Don't need a big stick for doing too much otherwise people won't be satisfied w the carrot
Gr3vi: The problem w some other people is that they flood the ever living shit out of the forum, post too much, discussion barely exists and there's just shitloads of gruel
x0x7: Here's what I'm actually tempted to do as a test. But people will hate it. Just remove chat for a few days to see how people like chatting in the threads. I think people will like it.
Gr3vi: Well you already spooked away Zom
Gr3vi: And I won't be here if that happens too
x0x7: Even it it's two-three days?
Gr3vi: This is both a people problem - people with tendencies that are rather erratic and different from the norm
Gr3vi: And a forum problem - figuring out how to make people use both
Gr3vi: I will come back but I am not active in the forum, I ain't got much time for it
Gr3vi: I have to write my damn bachelor
x0x7: Ok, here is one I've thought about. Tell me what you think.
Gr3vi: And I am a very spontaneous writer as you can see in chat ,I write in bursts rather than in long monolithic messages
Gr3vi: Shi, lemme put another ciggie in my iqos then
JasonCarswell: Clearly you have an idea of how you want chat and post-discussions to go. Clearly explain that so that we're not all guessing what we're supposed to do or why things are being rigged one way or another. If we're throttled on posts, and don't see the posts we want to see, or see the same old stuff, then we're not inclinded to discuss them - so you've unintentionally killed it. Further, we could maybe help figure out ways to help steer the behaviours you want. Maybe some don't want them, or have ideas we could agree or vote on. It all starts with clear initial communications.
Gr3vi: You want me to read alldat?
Gr3vi: Eh, just make a wiki for how posting and chatting works then people will know how things work as a entre
x0x7: Jason. It's like you said. Communicating the outcome you want doesn't work. I've done that. You said I should use forcing functions. You hate your own ideas when implemented.
Gr3vi: That's the thing lol, you do something and some people still won't use it due to habits or pure idiocy
JasonCarswell: We don't know what's happening. That's my point.
Gr3vi: It's the same problems I have in my apartment bloc, we do something, fix something but people still do the old crap out of habit
Gr3vi: I fix a door? Fucking kid still tries to pull open forcefully because he doesn't take the chip to open the door out of habit
x0x7: There definately were bugs as well. And maybe still are.
Gr3vi: We fix the garbage door? People are surprise and ask wtf is going on
x0x7: Redditbutt was complaining about being blocked when there was nothing in my code that should have blocked him.
Gr3vi: We put a door leg so people stop breaking the door? They still use rocks and can't take their eyes into their hands
x0x7: Yet somehow he was chatting about it, even though blocked? Makes no sense.
JasonCarswell: I have no control over postwhenever content. I have no control over messages. I have controls over custom score, age, proximity, bump, and comments - and I have no clue what that means.
Gr3vi: Both sides need to communicate well enough
Gr3vi: I work in IT as a technician, when I get told a computer doesn't work, that can mean ANYTHING
Gr3vi: Whether it's that the monitor is just turned off or the computer is unplugged
Gr3vi: Communicating w people is difficult
x0x7: So I'll communicate clearly. Chat does not need to be good. The forum does. It makes it easier for me to get more people here when there is activity there. A discussion like this can field the opinions of more people when it isn't limited to just the people who happen to be here. So almost everything is better as a thread.
Gr3vi: I would help but only when I finish my studies
Gr3vi: And even then I would need to relearn a lot of programming
JasonCarswell: " This is both a people problem - people with tendencies that are rather erratic and different from the norm " - On point! I happen to have a slack week. During busy weeks I have no time, and throttles limit my ability to catch up in mornings or evenings. Chat is random and erratic, whether there's anyone there to converse with or not. It's also the easily accessible town square.
Gr3vi: Eyup
Gr3vi: Removing chat is not the definitive solution and I doubt that it'll help much, everyone has their own schedule
Gr3vi: But if some people are posting too much, then let them schedule their posts? I think that's like an option already, no?
Gr3vi: Like schedule the post to be posted later so it's not gone
Gr3vi: Saves the hassle of not making the same post again
JasonCarswell: " Eh, just make a wiki for how posting and chatting works then people will know how things work as a entre " We can get that up here: https://projex.wiki/wiki/Goat_Matrix
Gr3vi: Nobody is gonna use that dude
Gr3vi: We just need a simple page here
x0x7: No one reads wikis, ever. People gravitate toward low attention span activities like chat over threads. They aren't going to read a wiki.
Gr3vi: Well just make like a rule sidebar like reddit has
Gr3vi: Or just something that's on the eyes when posting
Gr3vi: Somebody will read the wiki, it won't be totally useless but a rather low priority
x0x7: I agree
Gr3vi: Just make like a guideline/rule text blob in the posting page
Gr3vi: Like you can't make more than x posts in 24 hours or you can schedule posts to be posted later when you've reached the limit
x0x7: I still have it on my agenda to document Matrixdown and stuff.
Gr3vi: Yea, it's more useful for yourself more than for others
Gr3vi: But at least for transparency, on the posting page, add the guidelines/rules methinks
JasonCarswell: " Communicating the outcome you want doesn't work. " I don't recall anything, much less clearly. You want forum discussion. Why? I don't think that's something you can force - especially if folks aren't motivated by the content they see. News IMO is boring and endlessly divisive, as intended. The best I can do is quip stupid one liners. Not many are philosophers or appreciate longer content.
Gr3vi: And maybe add a counter for how many posts the user has made in 24 hours
x0x7: So rate limits do communicate. Maybe the bugs in chat weren't but those were bugs. The intentional side of chat quality controls were communicating.
JasonCarswell: " You said I should use forcing functions. You hate your own ideas when implemented. " I recommended considering them. I don't recall being asked about them. It was just imposed. When a city puts in a chicane it's by request and goes to council, etc. etc. etc.
x0x7: What if I took chat off of the sidebar and make it its own page only?
x0x7: The problem is I have two products. Both are things people like using.
Gr3vi: Would not be a bad idea
x0x7: But I basically have a giant ad for chat running on the product I'm trying to make work.
Gr3vi: It's like having a special room for your office
Gr3vi: in your home
Gr3vi: Dividing your office away from your other rooms allows you to differentiate between work and home
Gr3vi: I remember during covid with all the online learning, I did not really want to be at home or could not learn how to rest again
x0x7: So I think products should cross advertize but one can over do it vs the other depending on what you are trying to promote.
x0x7: So it would be interesting to think of a what to get chat to advertise threads more.
Gr3vi: I guess as an experiment, do try removing chat from the side and just make it's own thing, that's how I use it
x0x7: Any carrot I can give for posting threads in chat?
Gr3vi: The incentivisation of doing that is already the carrot lol
x0x7: Or I guess I can generally suggest people do that.
Gr3vi: Not much you can do unless you want people to farm karma off of link clicks, but that's a difficult thing to implement and easily abusable
Gr3vi: Man I need 2 extra monitors for all my chats or just a huge as fuck table and have 3 or 4 monitors
Gr3vi: Probably ought to get some small chink screen for chat
Gr3vi: Payday soon!
x0x7: The opposite of giving it it's own page is what Larry wants me to do. Widen the sidebar to take up 50% of the page.
x0x7: So he can have more space for chatting.
Gr3vi: That's stupid
Gr3vi: Just make the thing dynamic
x0x7: It is
Gr3vi: Well then he's asking for something he can already do
x0x7: But he wants it to be default 50%
JasonCarswell: " Chat does not need to be good. The forum does. [...] more people here when there is activity there. " Agreed. On the Projex link above I propose 2 notable projects under Community Direction (Public Relations, with practical steps to improve branding and aesthetics and campaigns) and Community Projects (Matrix Forum Week Themes that can be very useful for creators, publishers, resistance, etc). (We can shape up and clean up that article and move sub-sections to new wiki-pages whenever, but it's simpler all in one pile for now.)
Gr3vi: Totally useless thing to do
Gr3vi: The main attraction of this website is the forum, not chat
Gr3vi: By making the chat larger, the side dish, you mess up the main meal
Gr3vi: That's just shitty UI/UX design
Gr3vi: I studied this shit
JasonCarswell: " But if some people are posting too much, then let them schedule their posts? I think that's like an option already, no? " Yes please! More controls in post-whenever. The delete there doesn't even work.
x0x7: Plus there are elements that would get widened with it that make no sense.
Gr3vi: Larry doesn't know UI/UX design methinks
Gr3vi: Am on my last year of IT, I have the knowledge of how to do a proper IT project technically
Gr3vi: Programming Engineer I'll be, damn the programming lol
x0x7: K. I have to say something just so I can be productive. I am leaving the chat. If I come back then I am a loser who can't focus. That is all.
Gr3vi: take drugs to focus
Gr3vi: drugs drugs drugs drugs
JasonCarswell: " No one reads wikis, ever. " False. They don't read them like forums. Once a post is lost into a forum it's pretty much gone for good. Glad you have a functional search, unlike SaidIt. But you need to know what you're searching for. A well-organized forum (without bonus points) could be useful to those who actually do research and read wikis.
Gr3vi: That's just a bit of an exaggerated statement
Gr3vi: A lot of people don't read the wikis, it will be made but it's a really really low priority
JasonCarswell: " Somebody will read the wiki, it won't be totally useless but a rather low priority " I also agree. Wikis serve a purpose. It's easy to work on as a group over time. And those two projects I proposed could be better developed on the wiki WITH the forum discussion.
Gr3vi: Basically - the wiki will be there, but later
Gr3vi: Just need to figure out how to make it publicly editable
Gr3vi: Be it like Git/Github - commit changes, merge them
JasonCarswell: " What if I took chat off of the sidebar and make it its own page only? " I would prefer that. I only use it in a dedicated tab - but all the tabs chime for every comment. I can't speak to how others use it. IMO, all of this falls under the idea of ergonomically redesigning the GUI, from branding to function to layout, all considering CSS and future plans.
Gr3vi: I'd say it's just normal UI/UX design, delegate things to it's own place
JasonCarswell: For now: Just as you have the "MATRIX" logo, you could have a "CHAT" to match, beside the messages envelope..
JasonCarswell: " Any carrot I can give for posting threads in chat? " Unless it's seemed excessively important I've refrained from linking to posts. It's seemed uncouth to self-promote and worthy of ridicule. We can intentionally change that culture to encourage chat links. However, we'll also have to encourage folks not to comment on them in chat but in the forum.
Gr3vi: Get enough karma and you have one of those desktop hookers
JasonCarswell: " I need 2 extra monitors for all my chats or just a huge as fuck table and have 3 or 4 monitors " My 4 are like this: | = | but all equal size. I'd rather just have one 4K monitor.
Gr3vi: One monitor won't be enough lol
JasonCarswell: 1 x 4K = 4 x 1080p
Gr3vi: That's besides the point
Gr3vi: and no that ain't it
Gr3vi: 4k is 3840 x 2160
Gr3vi: 1080p is 1920x1080
JasonCarswell: Really I'd rather have 2 x 4K side by side, though I'd settle for 2 tall then 2 wide and 2 tall of 1080ps.
JasonCarswell: Yes, 4K is twice as wide and twice as tall. 4 x 1080p
Gr3vi: (1920x1080)x2
JasonCarswell: " Just make the thing dynamic " Yes. Make all the things dynamic and modular. That way, ideally, folks can rearrange things with CSS themes. Larry can custom build his theme. One of these months I'll learn your CSS and make some too (ever so odious) - but branding and planning must come first. I could take the initiative and just start designing to open it up to votes and feedback on itterations until we reach some preferred layout and design options. Possibly next week. This week I'm wrapping up a pitch for a couple history animations with a modicum of promise.
JasonCarswell: That is half of 4k, either tall or wide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution
Gr3vi: 1920 x 3 ; 1080x2
JasonCarswell: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Digital_video_resolutions_(VCD_to_4K).svg
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JasonCarswell: You need 4 of the green to cover the 1 red. Twice as wide, twice as tall.
Gr3vi: eh whatevs
Gr3vi: Shit's expensive like 5 times
JasonCarswell: New tech.
JasonCarswell: Larry should know there are browser addons to have side-by-side tabs.
JasonCarswell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97LoX8iodGc
JasonCarswell: You have a wiki account. You started this years ago and did nothing with it. https://projex.wiki/wiki/The_Latvian_Dossier
Gr3vi: Yea I know
Gr3vi: I lost the pass to that account anyway, do what you want
Gr3vi: I ain't got time for that
JasonCarswell: Projex for projects of all sorts. Even if you just fix the occasional typo. Lemme know if/when you want another account.
Gr3vi: There are things I could write there, but not with the amount of shit that's going on rn
Gr3vi: Corruption and etc
Gr3vi: Shitloads to write about the shit here
JasonCarswell: Another thought... Folks can write blogs on forums or wikis just as well as anywhere, all in a chronological feed category. And there's no reason you or anyone couldn't publish the same content (different markdown) on different platforms. SaidIt and InfoGalactic are dead, and at least somewhat backed up on WayBack - but some content might be worth backing up yet again.
Neol: [2026-02-10 7:01:35pm] shit you wrote more than chat history length while I was sleeping, and I missed the chunk of interesting convo :(